Believe me when I say I am not opposed to screen time for kids. I would lose count if I decided to round up the number of times I’ve plopped my kid in front of the TV so I could have a moment of peace or get some work done around the house. That said, my husband and I are pretty hard and fast on the rule of no iPads or tablets at the dinner table, especially if we’re out at a restaurant. Seems like we’re not alone!

During an appearance on the Him & Her Podcast, hosted by Lauryn and Michael Bosstick, parenting expert Dr. Becky Kennedy joined in on this polarizing conversation. Michael stated firmly that he thinks there should never be iPads inside restaurants, calling parents who do so “selfish.”

“I think it’s a selfish thing that parents do personally — and this is where I’ll get shit on the internet — to say, ‘Well, I need to be able to go to dinner with my spouse and I want to bring my kids, so this is the only way I can bring it. And I don’t have childcare,’ and I said, ‘Yeah, but if you fast forward and you’re creating a behavior for life. Are you really, is it for you, is it for them, or what’s the long-term effect?’ My perfect world, there would be no iPads ever at the dinner table, and if that’s a requirement for them to come to dinner, then they don’t come to dinner,” he says.

Dr. Becky nods while adding to Michael’s point that if parents want their kids to be able to sit at the dinner table with no distractions or entertainment, we, as parents, need to give them the tools to do so. Dr. Becky doesn’t do screens at the table either, and she sees this rule as a message to her kids.

“I feel like what I’m saying to my kids is the world is not entirely for optimized for your pleasure. In every moment, you should not be entertained. Sitting at a restaurant, ordering, and waiting — those are life skills that ladder up to what we know are the most important in adult life skills, which kind of is like waiting. This is an actual skill,” she says.

“We don’t expect kids to swim in the ocean before the pool, before the training pool, and we give them often swim lessons for a while before they actually swim independently. So, I’d say the same thing at a restaurant.”

Dr. Becky then gives an example of a way parents can help prep their kids for a screen-free restaurant visit.

“Okay, tonight is the first night we’re going to have a screen-free dinner, and that’s screen-free for everyone. And this is what’s so helpful. Even a two-year-old can understand this. Sometimes mommy and daddy have screens at the table. You probably see that. Starting tonight, we’re not, and if you see us, and if you see us kind of like sneaking, you can say, ‘Screen!’”

She goes on to give another example, demonstrating a simple game parents can play with their kids involving timers.

“‘I’m going to set a timer. Do you think we can do it?’ And I would do a minute. And the next night, I would do two minutes. Now, all of a sudden, beyond setting a boundary, I’ve actually set my kid up for success. Instead of the first time ever, I’m going out to dinner, I’m going to end up yelling at them because they have never been in that type of situation before.”

All kids have different needs and some parents cannot afford to keep their kids at home for a night out, so I am not judging those who do decide to take this route and have the kids on tablets while in a restaurant. Still, there might be more benefits if you play the long game and remove the screens.